How Supporting Staff Creates Better Member Experiences With Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE

Full Transcript

Bill Sheehan (00:00):

Previously on Learning by Association.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (00:04):

There will always be young doctors, there will be young lawyers, there will be young plumbers and carpenters and play therapists and chocolate makers. So they want to belong, they want to be connected, they want to have a relationship, and I think that’s our focus.

Bill Sheehan (00:24):

I think once they’re exposed to an association, I think it’s both refreshing and comforting to them to know that, wow, these folks are going through the same things I am. And you can’t find that anywhere else. Welcome to Learning by Association, a podcast brought to you by D2L where we delve into the ever-evolving world of associations and the challenges they face in navigating the currents of change. I’m Bill Sheehan and I’m thrilled to be your host. Join me and our guests as we explore the role learning plays in driving associations forward and how it can impact every part of your organization from recruiting to engagement and renewals to staff development, business strategy and more. So let’s dive in.

(01:12):

We’re excited again to be joined by Tracy Folkes Hanson, CEO of CSAE. Well, Tracy, we talked a lot about where associations have come from and how the technology and even how Covid affected how associations change and provide the benefits to members. And we spoke too about the benchmark report, which again, I found fascinating, really good information, but I think associations are struggling with or even finding the time and the words to say, this is what we do, this is why we do it, and this is how it can benefit you. And you think, well, boy, that should be fairly easy. Well, it’s really not because associations do so many things. And I almost wonder if you’ve heard some success stories or talking with members about how are they reaching the new or younger generation with associations and are they able to clearly articulate and feel comfortable about the offerings that they can provide?

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (02:25):

Yeah, I think that we do hear from associations in terms of how they’re communicating and how they’re communicating, why they resonate with the younger generation or why they resonate with current members or how they build that continued engagement piece. I think that every association should be laying out their strategy and in their strategy it’ll define where they’re going to go and what they’re going to do. I think a big piece of that is the whole focus on the member. And so I think if we consistently and continually apply the logic of talking about the benefits, what’s in it, we all do the, we don’t like the phrase what’s in it for me, but like it or not, we all ask it, so. And sometimes we don’t ask it, but we might ask it very passive aggressively. But we all know that members join, they’re going to give us their money and they’re going to give us their time and their engagement because they want to belong.

(03:36):

They want that relationship. And I think that’s what associations really need to focus on, is connecting with the member, building that relationship, creating those personalized experiences. And then I think therein lies the root of the benefit to the member. And I don’t think that that is directed at any age or stage. I think that it is everything. And Bill, we always talk about associations try to be a lot for, we do a lot. I think recognizing that we’ve got, even in CSAE, we have CEO’s and executive directors who have been at it for a while or they’re in the C-suite and they get it. They need something very different from someone who’s just starting their career in association management.

(04:32):

And it’s incumbent upon us as the association that helps foster excellence among association professionals to really create the programming and the deliverables that enable everybody at all stages of their career without trying to do too much. Because when you try to do too much, then burnout, I think coming out of the pandemic is real. It’s a very different world. I think some people are still holding on to the return to normal unicorn. We’re not going to find it. We have to define who we are today and what we’re going to be in the future. And I think that has to be rooted in meeting our members where they’re at and being there for our members.

Bill Sheehan (05:23):

Yeah. And one thing I wanted to point out too, and I learned this too from some very good mentors I had while I was in an association, and if I kind of set the table here, if you were to walk into any association and ask, let’s say I had a staff of 10, and you ask each one of them, what does your association do? You’re going to get 10 different answers.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (05:48):

Sure.

Bill Sheehan (05:48):

Right. And if you ask them what’s the benefit? What are some benefits that you think you provide your members and you’re going to get 10 different answers. You’ll have the folks who are involved in government affairs or government relations and they feel that’s all they do. And you’ll have people in communications saying, we need to really keep our members abreast of what’s happening in the industry. And you have the trade show folks thinking the only reason we exist is because of this trade show.

(06:13):

And so everything’s a little bit different. And I think it was, I worked in two associations that it was imperative for every staff member to really have that elevator pitch. And I mean everyone. I mean, from the receptionist to everybody had to say the same thing. And the reason he said that is because he said, not when we’re at our show, it’s when you’re out with your friends and they ask you What do you do? And if you’re all kind of in alignment, that association’s going to operate really efficiently. And I saw that at CSAE and I was impressed by that. And I think that that’s a sign of success. But when we are talking at your symposium, you’re doing some pretty remarkable things that your organization that are making your employees happy. If you want to chat about that, I think associations would benefit learning that. I think there’s a bit of old world thinking that if you’re not at work, you’re not working. Right. And I think there’s that fear.

(07:26):

If my whole staff is remote, how do I know they’re working? And you’ve done it and you’ve probably seen productivity and you’ve seen happy employees who are passionate about what they do and that’s contagious. I mean, that will transcend at shows and at events and on webinars and the like, that this is a great place to work and they’re providing something. Do you have any advice for some of those associations are saying, my staff is saying they all want to work remote or they want this and I just feel that, not lack of trust, I just think I can’t say them, they’re not working?

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (08:04):

I think yeah, I do. You got to let it go. We had to do it. We were forced to do it for a couple of years. And if you saw changes in productivity or in performance during that time, you would’ve addressed them. You can address them the same way. I met someone not too long ago. I was at an event and this individual who was not any older than I am, probably schooled around the same era, probably came up in our careers around the same time, said, “We need to get back to the office because they need to learn that water cooler chat. They need to learn office politics, they need to learn all of those things.” And my response was, “Do they really? Really?” I don’t know that learning office politics is as important as learning how to collaborate and come together. And you can do that virtually. You can do it in person.

(09:09):

Now we make time to make sure that we’re getting together in person as well. We also make time to have the conversation with the whole team to talk about, a few times a year, we’ll check in with the whole group to say, is this still working? Is this not working? What are some other things that we can do? The latest was can we not book any meetings on Monday? Can we just work in the cafe in the morning? And then can we have Monday as a no or low meeting Monday? Because Mondays just seem to be that day where if you have that protected time in your calendar, you can get so much done and then breeze through the rest of the week with all of the meetings and conversations that you have. So I don’t think, I just, I intuitively trust people.

(09:56):

Listen, you know if someone’s not doing their job, you know if someone needs support and if you build a team, I think that is open enough. And if you set a culture that is open enough that people feel that they can share their concerns or you create a space where they can share their concerns, you create a space or a culture of curiosity and you create space for people to explore and learn and grow. I don’t know that you have to be all in the same place at the same time to do that. I don’t know that it’s realistic anymore. And one of the things I will say, Bill, is what’s the reason I feel this way is because I usually use myself as a litmus test.

(10:46):

So when the pandemic first hit a couple of weeks in, I was at home and I was just fit to be tied. I whipped myself into a frenzy and I was so upset. And what came out of that was I thought, I can’t be the only one who feels this way. So we created a informal video meeting called Talk Tuesdays with CSAE members. We still run them now. We do them once a month now. In those days we were doing them every week, but it was a place that people could come to to support each other, and that really stemmed from I knew how I was feeling. So it’s the same thing with working virtually or listening to our team because they have some great ideas. I every once in a while have a good idea. My ideas get so much better when people add to them. And I think that’s the approach that I always take, is how do I feel about this? I don’t necessarily want to spend three days commuting to the office again when I can be much more productive working remotely.

(11:52):

And I’ll flip it over and say, we talk about capacity with the team, how much capacity do we have? I think as leaders, we have to not be afraid to say, what do we need to stop? What do we need to continue? And what, if anything, do we want to start? Because it’s about capacity for what you can deliver as an association. But the flip side as well, which flips us back into the conversation around being member-centric is our members don’t have the capacity either to do all of the things. So what is it that they’re telling us that they need and how do we lean into that and build that? And you need to be able to build it with a team that you trust and that can do the work and can be really, really productive in order to do it. And they get to drive that. Culture isn’t driven, I mean, it’s certainly supported by, and the tone is set by the leadership, but it’s embraced and then it really belongs to the people.

Bill Sheehan (12:56):

Exactly. I was just going to say that I think that those days are gone too. I want to make as much money as I can and I’m going to find that place. And then you find out you’re really unhappy because one, you start a job, you don’t know what your role is. You saw the job description, but there’s no onboarding. You sit in the HR department for a few days filling out forms, and then if you’re in the day, you’ll walk by offices. And I’ve seen this where people are paying their bills and they’re going out to lunch and all of a sudden, so they’re doing that anyway, so why not allow them to be happy where they are and be productive and efficient in getting things done because they don’t want to lose that. In other words, I don’t want to make Tracy mad because she wanted this report by the end of the week and I don’t have it. And if I’m not going to have this job, I may have to go back to get another job that I have to go into an office, so.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (13:52):

Right.

Bill Sheehan (13:53):

I think that the fact that if you’re making them happy and they’re productive, they’re going to stay happy and productive. Now, obviously they’re always going to have some opportunities that you’re experiencing, that they get an offer you just can’t refuse. But I think that associations now kind of have to take a step back and say, wait a minute, why am I forcing them to be in the office if they don’t need? Because there’s other expenses that come along with that. Right. They’re spending more on gas, but there’s also the mental expense that they’re like, this is not what I want to be. I’m going to start looking for a job.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (14:25):

Yeah.

Bill Sheehan (14:25):

And when they start that, that’s going to tail off. But one of the things, I want to kind of circle back on something that we spoke about earlier, and that is kind of what I think that associations, in other words, how do you make your association stand out? How can you really rise above the clutter right now in the marketplace and say, we would like you to join our organization and help advance your career? And one of the things I think that has been missing with associations and we’re all guilty of this is sometimes we’re almost too busy to promote ourselves and what we do and why we’re so important. We’re not going away. But it was education. And there’s been reports, research projects here both, and I think in North America in general with associations is that the top three revenue producing items within an association are typically dos. Right. They get the dos. It’s your trade show or events.

(15:30):

And then right behind that was education, and that was both for trade associations and professional societies. And I think the one thing, a lot of associations spend a lot of time promoting the trade shows and the events and the ways to get together. But I think one thing that’s overlooked is education and learning, and not just on certification, but other training manuals of how to onboard your own staff or how to deal with diversity, equity, and inclusion. And I think those are so important. And sometimes associations just forget that individuals want to learn to increase their worth within either their existing company or within the marketplace itself. And I think, and do you have any words of wisdom for associations to say, don’t be afraid to talk about the education that you’re providing because it’s coming from subject matter experts?

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (16:27):

Yeah, I think that education, learning, professional development, it’s all learning. So I’m going to use the word learning because there’s essential education like designations and then there’s professional development where I can learn all the time. I think as human beings often we want to learn more, we want to know more. So there’s opportunities. Creating those opportunities for knowledge exchange or information share or straight up, here’s an on-demand learning module to teach you how to write an advocacy plan, advocacy 101. Those are the things. I think that they are true features that then lead to association professionals and our members growing in their professional lives and certainly any kind of learning adds to your personal life. So I think dialing into that, but again, always looking at it from the frame of the member, like what is the benefit to the member?

(17:34):

We just finished, our fiscal is May one to April 30th. So we just earlier this month presented our annual plan to the board. And when we talked about it, the direction that we set for this year’s plan was everything had to be rooted in member value. There had to be, that was the filter, right, that our members had to see value in every offering that we put together, meaning it has to come directly from the data and the lessons that our members give us and the feedback and the insight that they share with us. Second piece was we all had to look at it through a capacity lens, right? An energy versus impact perspective, if you will, on the team side, but also the capacity of where are our members at? Our members are saying, I’m not coming to a lunch and learn anymore because I can grab a coffee and dial up a course or dial up a webinar, or you offer webinars.

(18:35):

I can join you on this Indigenous Works webinar that you’ve partnered with Indigenous Works on to learn about why we do land acknowledgements. I can do that from the comfort of my own office, so I’m going to do that. So again, it’s not only capacity for what you’re able to deliver as an association, but what are our members able to absorb? And that member-centric piece is really important because you need to understand what it is. You can pull that from all sorts of data points.

(19:04):

So that was really sort of the filter that we looked at planning through, because even that, thinking about capacity is valuable to our members because if they don’t have the time to engage on things that are not important to them, and if we’re not giving them, offering them things that are important to them, there’s no value there. So we need to make sure that that is at the forefront because that’s the name of the game that we’re in. It’s about building those relationships, making sure the value is there because the value for associate, in my case, the value for association professionals is so that they can run their association and impact and influence the world in all the ways that they do through all of the industries that they do it.

Bill Sheehan (19:54):

Yeah, that’s well put. And that’s very well put. And I think now too, the associations are kind of experiencing this, I guess, fear that we might become non-relevant, we’re not relevant anymore within our industry, or we’re not perceived as being a great value. And I think what associations sometimes forget, and again, I worked with four different associations, is sometimes we forget that the association itself, what it was formed for and who actually is brought in that umbrella are really, are going to be your mentors. They’re the subject matter experts. These are the ones who are giving of their time so that the industry itself can become better and advance in such a way that it’s really hard, I think for associations to articulate that in today’s environment because there’s so much other information just bombarding for their attention.

(21:05):

And I’ve often thought that where associations might want to begin spending some of their dollars and time are really reaching out to some of the universities and the departments that are the nursing departments, or the engineering departments, or the food service departments, depending on where your association is and spending time there saying, “Hey, you’re going to enter a workforce and everything’s going to be brand new to you, but there’s this organization or there’s several organizations within this that we highly recommend you get involved in, and it’s going to be worth every penny because it’s going to immediately make you smarter within your industry.” Are you seeing any, with some of the members or some of your association members, are they reaching out to that level, the university level or the trade school level, depending on that to kind of,-

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (22:04):

Yeah, absolutely. And I think an abundance of associations have student memberships or student affiliate offerings. Right. So for students, for people that are still in school, people who haven’t graduated or are not working in the industry, I know a lot of associations offer up student access to the association so that they can get in and they can start to feel like they’re part of the association. I know in our case, in CSAE case, we have a student affiliate option and they have the benefit of participating in our online communities and participating, like access to things that members have. The only thing that they do not have is a vote because they’re not paying members of the association.

Bill Sheehan (22:58):

Sure.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (22:59):

They pay a [inaudible 00:23:00] fee. But yeah.

Bill Sheehan (23:01):

Yep. Yeah. And I think that’s great too. And what I’ve seen too sometimes that, particularly in the engineering vertical for associations where if you’re in engineering school, you had a free membership in a respective engineering association or society at no cost. And so you’d get information, you’d get a magazine, you get this, you get that, but as soon as you left school, then all of a sudden they had to pay for that. And they’re like, I’m not going to, I was like, I didn’t see the value. And so I think what’s happening is I think getting the students educated on the associations, I often, and this is just, I’m going get on a soapbox here, I think part of the enrollment fee should go to those particular associations for their membership. Right. Because you’re going to teach them, but we’re going to make them smarter throughout their career on that.

(23:58):

But again, I think it’s imperative that associations understand they do and will always play a critical role in their respective industries. And here’s something that I learned when I was in the association space. So remember you’d have your board meeting and then they would go into executive session. And when you’re in executive session, the staff has to leave because I just wanted to have conversations. And so they would go over the course of the meeting minutes and they were saying, should we continue on with this association or should we shut it down? Because it served its purpose.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (24:33):

Sure.

Bill Sheehan (24:34):

And the answer always came back that if we were to shut down this association, we would create another one. We’d have to create this association again because it’s serving our purpose. And I think that associations have to remember that, that they’re not, I think some associations get caught up in the fact that we have a pretty good renewal rate of 80% and can live off of that.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (25:00):

Right.

Bill Sheehan (25:01):

Well, that ends. Right. That ends and you don’t want to be part of that. So I think that you’ve got to continually say to yourself that we are critical and we provide an enormous amount of benefits to the association, either through training, or learning, or networking, or events to showcase the latest and greatest advances in an industry. But I think because associations right now are so busy, they have to really take a step back objectively and say, what is it we do? And are we truly articulating that to our industry?

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (25:39):

Yeah.

Bill Sheehan (25:39):

And I don’t know if you have any words of wisdom because you have done a very good job at doing that. But if there’s some words of wisdom that you might say to associations is that, don’t forget who you are and why you were formed and you’re still going to always be relevant in this industry.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (25:58):

Yeah, I think that comes down to value proposition and making sure people understand what that is, and it goes back to the elevator pitch, right, which is 30 seconds. This is who you are. And it’s not the 30 seconds when you’re standing at the booth when people are coming by. It’s your 30 seconds when you’re at your barbecue on Saturday and your friends say, what is it that you do?

(26:24):

I was in communications. I spent the first part of my career in communications. I’ve talked about that. I talk about it often because there’s great learnings from there that catapult me into where I am now. But I started out in public relations and my mother for the longest time thought that all I did was drink wine and eat shrimp because that’s what I was always doing. We have to communicate, and it’s not a capital C communication, it’s a small C. We have to know what our value is for our members. We have to know what it is, why they want to belong to the association, and we have to remind them of that. And then we have to tell the world that that’s why we exist. It all comes down to purpose and making sure people know what our purpose is.

Bill Sheehan (27:11):

That is a wonderful statement, and you’ve been very generous with your time. And what I’d like to do is, you never supposed to bring up something at the end of a conversation that could start a whole nother conversation, but we talked a little bit about AI.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (27:27):

Yeah.

Bill Sheehan (27:27):

And I think there’s a lot of concern over AI. Could it replace me as a communications person? Could it replace me as a marketing person or accounting or HR, or could it replace the association in general? Because I can ask things, and I heard somebody say this. I was giving a presentation about the future of associations and how AI is going to play in that role. And somebody sat up and said, “The one thing about AI is artificial intelligence is not a subject matter expert.”

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (27:59):

Right.

Bill Sheehan (28:00):

“The human is.”

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (28:01):

Right.

Bill Sheehan (28:02):

And that is what I think associations are made up of, right, is those subject matter experts. And we’re teaching one another organically, and we’re mentoring and we’re sharing some of the same experiences that not even your family members experience that the association, that members do as well. So I think from the association standpoint, there seems to be, and I saw in that report a sense of optimism, that things are starting to come back. I think with leaders such as yourself, if we can continue that, we’re going to see things grow. So I think all told with the ability to protect and advance and promote an industry, I think with leaders such as yourself at the helm, I think the association community both in Canada and here in the United States is in good hands. And I think very, very good things are going to happen. And I think you’re setting an excellent role [inaudible 00:29:02] as a role model too, for how an association itself can function properly remotely and effectively, so.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (29:10):

Well, thank you very much, Bill. I’m always happy to talk about associations and the association sector and where it’s going. I said it earlier, I like to learn things. I like to know things. Not to the point where I’m a know-it-all because I’m absolutely not. I consider that everybody else is and that they can tell me. I think that associations, and in our case association leaders, the people that run associations embrace that, embrace continuous improvement, evolution, and learning, and we learn from all sorts of different things. And we shouldn’t be afraid of new technology. We need to learn about it.

(29:54):

We shouldn’t be afraid of building a team that can be perfectly 100% virtual because we can learn from everybody. And we can really learn from our members where they want the association, their association if you consider that a member based association really belongs to the members. Where do they want it to go? And I just happened to be in a great fortunate position where I can help guide it and steer it on behalf of our members. So it’s always a pleasure to talk about it. Thank you so much for having me.

Bill Sheehan (30:30):

Well, I will say that CSAE is in great hands.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (30:34):

Thank you.

Bill Sheehan (30:35):

And I look forward to seeing you again soon. And I can’t thank you enough for your time. I know it’s an incredibly busy time for your organization, so this means a lot for us that you took time to be with us today. Thank you very much.

Tracy Folkes Hanson, CAE (30:45):

My pleasure.

Bill Sheehan (30:51):

You’ve been listening to Learning by Association, a podcast where we delve into the ever evolving world of associations and the challenges they face in navigating the currents of change. This episode was produced by D2L, a global learning innovation company helping organizations reshape the future of education and work. To learn more about our solutions, please visit www.d2l.com and don’t forget to subscribe so you can stay up to date with new episodes. Thanks for joining us, and we’ll see you next time.