Actionable Insights to Improve Equality in Education with Daysha Jackson-Sanchez

Full Transcript

Dr. Cristi Ford:

Welcome to Teach & Learn, a podcast for curious educators, brought to you by D2L, a global edtech company committed to transforming the way the world learns. I’m Dr. Cristi Ford, vice president of academic affairs.

Dr. Emma Zone:

And I’m Dr. Emma Zone, senior director of academic affairs.

Dr. Cristi Ford:

Each week we’ll meet some of the sharpest minds in the K-20 space. We’ll break down trending educational topics, discuss teaching strategies, and have frank conversations about issues plaguing our schools and higher education institutions today.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Whether it’s edtech, personalized learning, virtual classrooms, or diversity and inclusion, we’re going to cover it all.

Dr. Cristi Ford:

Sharpen your pencils, class is about to begin.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Hello and welcome. We all have a responsibility and an obligation to ensure that education is equitable. So why isn’t it? Well, there are a few challenges, including limited resources and uncertainty about where to begin or what to do. In this episode, we’ll get some answers and more importantly, some actionable steps that we can implement that can have significant impact. I couldn’t think of anyone better to lend their expertise on this subject. I’m so excited. Here with years of experience identifying and eliminating systemic barriers in education, please welcome the VP of equity solutions at Lumen Learning, Daysha Jackson-Sanchez. I’m so glad to have you here.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Thank you, Emma. I’m glad to be here.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Welcome, welcome, and I’m really excited to share this virtual classroom with you today. We go way back. Daysha and I have had the pleasure of working together to really advance teaching and learning through different organizations we’ve been a part of. And so this is going to be a great conversation amongst friends and a chance to really dive in on an important topic and learn more about your work and what you’re up to at Lumen Learning.

And so for our loyal listeners out there, you know that I’ve just recently joined D2L and Dr. Cristi Ford in our academic affairs department, which we’re excited about, I’m super excited about. And part of what we do is overseeing the Teaching and Learning Studio, a place for thought leadership pieces, webinars, master classes, all for educators, by educators. And part of those offerings includes this podcast. So I am honored to be sharing the Teach and Learn hosting duties with Dr. Ford.

And Daysha, as you know, this is my very first episode and you are my first guest. I’m so happy to have you share this milestone with me and walk alongside me in this journey for this very first podcast episode.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Well, thank you for inviting me. And as I share with you, this is my first time on a podcast too, so we can endeavor here together and learn together as well. So I’m excited for the conversation.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Absolutely. And so let’s dive right in. Let’s start talking first about what your role is all about. So can you tell us a little bit more about your role of VP of equity solutions and really what does that mean?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Sure. So as the vice president of equity solutions at Lumen, I’m essentially tasked with… It’s sort of two-fold. One is I’m working directly with our team to really understand what does it mean to design products with equity at the center of our design practices, our philosophy. And a lot of that really focuses on our personal identities, our biases and things of that nature and how they may show up in the decisions that we’re making, and then how do we counter those as we’re actually going through the design process. And so that is one of the major aspects of that. Really just continuously keeping our team focused on our goal of creating equitable products that have outcomes where our students, regardless of their background, have equal opportunity to succeed. And so again, going through that manifests in many different ways, but that is essentially me helping to keep our team centered in that way.

Dr. Emma Zone:

I love that and I love that around the student identity piece as well because it’s such a key part of the conversation. So thanks for pointing that out. I think when people hear that phrase, equity in education, it can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So could we unpack that a little bit? What is the goal of equity in education and really how does equity translate into greater student success? Because that’s why we’re here, right?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Yes.

Dr. Emma Zone:

To help students succeed. What is the ripple effect of this beyond the individual?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Sure. So when we think about equity, I’ve heard often that it is about leveling the playing field. And I don’t disagree with that. I think that it is in part about how are we creating situations and systems that regardless of your background, they aren’t going to hinder you from being successful. But I think it goes a little bit deeper than that, and it’s really around how are we meeting students where they are. So all of our students are coming to us, and I have a significant background in higher education. So I spent about 15 years in higher ed in various capacities and really focusing on student success was one of my major roles within higher ed. And so when students come to us, they’re coming with a lot of different lived experiences, whether it’s from different socioeconomic backgrounds, whether it’s racial and ethnic backgrounds and so forth. And so in that we can’t really assume that they’re going to encounter the environment the same and that they are going to navigate or know how to navigate the systems that we have in place.

So it’s really important for us when we think about equity, to think about who are students and recognizing that they have diverse experiences. And so then how do we create opportunities for them to have the best opportunity for success within the environments that we create? And so a lot of that could be the language that we’re using, how inclusive is the environment inviting? So when I say inclusive, I mean is the environment inviting so that students can show up with their different identities and feel like they’re appreciated and not that it’s going to be a burden of some sort within that environment. So when I think about equity is really around what systems do we have in place? How are we creating and making sure that those systems aren’t hindering students? But in many ways, how are we engaging them in the process of developing better systems or things in which that really reflect their identities so that they feel that they can have the most opportunity for success?

Dr. Emma Zone:

Yeah, I love that. And I think that notion of systems and having to check that ourselves, what we bring into these spaces, because it is very multifaceted as you have pointed out. And particularly with students who might be coming into either the virtual or physical classroom with all different kinds of identities elements, it really does make it an interesting perspective shifter, I think, for those of us who work in those spaces as well. So it becomes this kind of two-way interaction. So I really appreciate that.

And also the fact that you mentioned students being drawn into the conversations, I think part of it is not making assumptions as well, which is part of what you’ve just said, and I think agree wholeheartedly. That’s amazing.

There’s a CTO of a really great non-profit called Year Up, a gentleman by the name of Gary Flowers. And Year Up is a really great organization that has a mission to help young adults get the skills that they need to gain meaningful employment and build impactful careers. And when he was asked about the opportunity divide, Gary Flowers said, “Talent is equally distributed, opportunity is not.” And I thought that was such a compelling statement that aligned with our conversation. Would love to hear your thoughts on that statement.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

100% agree with the statement. Just say that right off the bat that I couldn’t agree more. And I think that that’s important. The first piece of that statement I think is extremely important that we are all talented in different ways. We all have different strengths and things that we bring. And if we liken this to the learning environment, then our students are the same way. They’re going to come in with assets from their environment, from their experiences that are really valuable to the learning environment. And I think as educators, it’s important for us to recognize that and that those assets and those strengths and talents may look very differently. And so I think that is 100% in agreement with that.

I also agree with the second part of that where opportunity is not distributed the same as well. And so it brought me back to the idea of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and that being one of the things that we have heard in society for so long. And the opportunity to do that is not equal across the board for all students, because again, if you come from a lower socioeconomic background, then sometimes it’s not even about the income that you have, but it’s the access to information that maybe just is not the same for every student. So if you’re a first-generation college student, who in your family can you go back to and ask questions about just simple things again, like language that’s used within higher education. Or I remember my own personal…

I’m a first-generation college student and I remember my own personal experience being one which I didn’t have anybody to ask what a FAFSA was or how to fill it out or anyone to actually support me when I was attempting to go to college and figure out how to navigate all the different things that were put in front of me. And so opportunity isn’t the same, and so many of us have to figure these things out along the way and that’s just 100% agree with that statement. And that’s just a couple of examples of how that manifests, but I know it’s a reality for many of our students.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Absolutely. Well, and I love that language piece, and it’s one that I think when you’re in the system is so often overlooked. I can relate, even coming into a new organization, when you start a new job, you have to learn the acronyms the way that people talk about things. So it’s a skill that is something that actually transfers from the educational setting into the workplace. And so it’s something though that can be a barrier if you don’t have a resource to know where you go to even find out what these things mean.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Absolutely.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Yeah, that assumption piece, again. We make assumptions that students may know what the words or the phrases or the departments mean, but they may or may not.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Yes, absolutely. I appreciate you bringing that up in the workplace because education technology is new to me. So I felt like there were a lot of things that I was learning for the first time, and it can be isolating when you’re in a new environment and you feel like everyone knows everything around you and you are the one left out. And so I think it’s important for us to remember that many of our students are coming to us with those feelings. And so it’s our duty as educators to create environments where they can feel like they can ask questions and they can feel like they’re not being made to feel like an outsider because they don’t know or they haven’t been exposed to those things previously.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Yeah, great point. I think that dovetails into this idea about how do we bridge that gap. So what is the critical role that educators play in helping to bridge some of those either assumptions we’re making at the system level or even just within our own learning spaces? So how do you see educators playing a role in bridging that gap?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Yes. That’s a great question. I will tell you that in my work, I have had educators themselves ask the same question. And so I often will direct our conversation to how… Or the question that I typically like to ask is how are we engaging students in the actual conversation itself?

I was listening to something or I was in a webinar recently and I heard a student say, “No conversations about us without us.” And I had never heard it put in those terms, but I’m like, that’s exactly it. So the question that I’m always asking is how do we involve students in the conversation? And so I can share my own personal experiences and my experience is a lot of what led me to the work that I do today and what I’m passionate about because I experienced so many barriers. But my experience is umpteen years ago now, and it’s not the same experience that our current students are likely going to have. So I can use it as a foundation, but I can’t rely on that to say, this is what we should be creating now. I have to go to students and ask them their opinion and value their lived experience and how it can be an asset again in helping us to create environments that are intended and co-created with them and not just create it for them.

So when we think about equity center design, we’re really talking about how are we co-creating products, learning spaces with students and not designing for them. And so that is one of the key and critical I think, elements of this entire idea about students and equity is that they should be a part of the conversation and they should be valued in that way and not just seeking research. And those things are hugely important, but we have a huge asset in our students and it’s important for us to make sure that they are at the table in our decision-making processes.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Absolutely. And that comment around the co-creation piece, that’s what we know good learning is too. So I wonder how that same idea around the student feedback relates the faculty voice in these conversations and the faculty identity. Is that something that’s also part of what you’ve been grappling with?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Absolutely. Because as important as it is to elevate and appreciate the student voice, sometimes they don’t know what they don’t know. And so we as educators having experience, it is important for us to identify how to balance that student voice with what we know to be great sound education or things that are really important in the learning process. And so the faculty voice is hugely important with that too. We do not bypass the faculty voice in our design. That’s a significant part of our design process as well, but again, we have to look at them both holistically. So what of our students saying, what do a faculty need to create the best learning environment? And then how does the student voice again play a part in all of that? And it’s not an easy task to balance those two often because they can sometimes be at odds, but at the same time, it’s our job and our role to create the best opportunity for faculty to be successful, as well as students to be successful within that environment.

Dr. Emma Zone:

That’s great. And so in thinking about bringing these different concepts together, what’s one key message you’d like educators to take away from this conversation? What should we be thinking about?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

There’s so many things I feel like we think about as educators, right?

Dr. Emma Zone:

Yes.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Yes. One thing we should be thinking about I believe, is how are we engaging students in their own learning and in the learning environment itself? And so are we creating active learning opportunities for students to learn from each other, to share and to really process and conceptualize the information that they’re taking in within the courses that they’re taking? So I think that is the big thing.

In the past, in some classes, I know all faculty are not like this, but it was very much lecture. I’m pouring information into you as my job as the educator to share as much information as possible. And we know that that isn’t always the best or most successful way for students to learn. So how again, are we creating active opportunities for them to engage, for them to share and really, really walk away where they understand the concepts and not just hearing the information being poured into them. So that would be my biggest thing for us to think about is how are we engaging students? And then when we think about this from an equity lens as well, really providing opportunity without pressuring students to share, that’s not my intention here at all. It is creating opportunity for students to feel like it’s okay for them to share pieces of their identity that they feel comfortable sharing, and it really can enrich the environment in ways that we may not see otherwise. So that’s what I would encourage our encourage educators to think about.

Dr. Emma Zone:

That’s great. And I think what’s interesting about that is while we can cast that with the lens of an equity-centered experience for students from a teaching or a design perspective, that type of approach positively impacts all students because we all have identities, we all have stories. And so it’s really about how are you infusing that good teaching practice.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Yes.

Dr. Emma Zone:

It’s not an either or. And I think that’s sometimes, unfortunately, the noise externally makes it seem like it is an either or an extra piece where in reality when you’re talking about equity-centered design or equity-centered teaching, it should be all-encompassing and it’s not an add-on, right?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Yeah, absolutely. It is definitely a both and. I don’t mean to say that there isn’t a time and a place for lecture, because there is obviously a time and place for that, but in that, how are we creating opportunities to do both? So I 100% appreciate that.

The other thing that I was thinking as we were talking about this is that I always enter my learning environments thinking that I can learn from my students too. And so if we create opportunity for them to share or to feel comfortable doing that, then how does that enrich my understanding about my students, about learning in general? And so always, as a lifelong learner, I go into the learning environment thinking that it’s not just my job to impart knowledge, but it’s what knowledge might I take away from the students that I have in that environment as well.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Absolutely. And here I am nodding along with you, and so I want to ask that same to my colleagues and the listeners out there who are nodding along in agreement but maybe aren’t sure what concrete steps to take. What are some ways… And I know this is a big question, and it’s something that can be sensitive or difficult and people might not always know where to even create an entry point. But what are some of the ways that educators can identify inequity and rectify them at least even in their own space?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Yeah, it’s a great question. And so I wonder how many educators that are listening today have looked at their assessment data and sort of looked at it from different viewpoints. So we often will give a quiz or give a test or exam, and we see the aggregate score, but are we able to look at it from different demographic categories of students? And sometimes we don’t always have that information, but I will say that there are products such as the products that we provide at Lumen where we ask certain questions of students at the beginning that can share more of their identity, where you can see are all of your students progressing at the same pace? And if not, then what are some of the challenges? I think that that’s where you can create specific outreach to students. And it’s not specific in the sense of calling them out according to their identity, but if you know students who are struggling, then you can actually reach out to them specifically versus sending blanket outreach.

And so I think that is one of the key ways is to really kind of figure out what data do you have available to you that you can disaggregate and look at it to see are my students actually performing equally or are there groups of students that are not performing as well? And so that’s again, helping you to first identify what the particular challenges are. Once you do that, then I think that it’s a matter of what types of strategies might that look like. It may be that you’re bringing in tutoring into the classroom specifically, and everyone can benefit from that. It may be that you’re connecting students from a peer perspective with students that are really doing well with students that may not be doing as well to help to engage in the content that way. So first and foremost, it’s about understanding what’s actually happening in your classroom and then devising specific strategies to align with those particular things.

Dr. Emma Zone:

That holistic view from the assessment data standpoint is such a good point that’s often overlooked because it’s often just cast as are they passing or not, versus what might this be indicating about what a student needs at any given time? So that’s such a great, great point and accessible for us as educators as well.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

I would add too, to do that. It’s not a one and done type of thing, maybe to do it consistently throughout the semester as much as you can have data afforded to you. And the sooner we can do it earlier in the semester, the better chances we have of helping to turn performance around. If we wait till the end of the term, then sometimes it could be too late. So it’s an early and often type of thing.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Definitely. And even what you mentioned about the personalized outreach, that in and of itself demonstrates a level of caring that is not just, here’s everybody who missed the assignment, don’t forget to turn it in. It’s showing a level of engagement from the faculty that I see you as a person, I’m wondering how you’re doing and how can I support you? And we know caring is an evidence-based instructional practice, right?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

As I heard you talking, I was really thinking about the personalized outreach and how demonstrating caring is really important. And so if you know that a student is struggling, maybe they’ve been doing really well and then all of a sudden they’re struggling, and so then that’s really I think a part of equity that we were talking about. When I defined equity earlier, it was meeting students where they are. So if you have students that are struggling and they’re struggling in one particular way or some capacity, then actually doing that personalized outreach is equity, is where you’re actually, again, connecting students with the specific strategies or support that they need and not looking at creating some type of blanket support that may or may not be what that particular student needs.

Dr. Emma Zone:

Great point. Absolutely. And before we wrap up, I do want to go back to this role that you have. I said at the top of our episode today that your role is the vice president of equity solutions at Lumen Learning. So can you share a little bit more about who Lumen is, what you all do? And I think it’s noteworthy to say that it’s sort of a unique type of position. So say a little bit more because I think our listeners would love to learn.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Yeah. Lumen Learning, we’re an education technology company, and I use that term somewhat loosely because we have two prongs. We focus on faculty success and student success. And so the faculty success is how are we supporting faculty to understand evidence-based instructional practices, identify ways in which they can use them within their learning environment and in support of student success. And so in our student success is where our courseware comes in. And so we create equity center products, courseware or digital textbooks that some may understand that terminology, where it’s culturally relevant content as well as equity-centered design product where we’re really taken in and co-design with students products where they can see themselves and their lived experiences reflected within those products. Our hope there is really to improve outcomes and success regardless of a student’s socioeconomic or demographic background. And so Lumen, we’re really focused on creating access and opportunity for students to have the best possible outcomes possible.

Dr. Emma Zone:

That’s great. And so it sounds like Lumen takes the equity piece seriously.

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

Yes.

Dr. Emma Zone:

And to have that role in Lumen says a lot about the organization. Why should other companies follow suit?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

I’ve had some of these conversations as well with some of my peers in the technology and education specific realm, and I am one of a few and probably one of only individuals with a role such as this. If you have a role very similar to mine, I would love to connect with you. But I think what it does for us at Lumen and what it says about Lumen is the commitment that we have to equity and that it isn’t something that’s sort of a offshoot. It is embedded within the work that we do and in the conversations that we have daily, weekly, and so forth.

And so other companies, if you are really serious about equity, then it’s again, not about the language and the terminology and the things that we use. It’s about what are we actually doing specifically to move the needle so that regardless of your background or student experience, that student has the opportunity to be successful. And so that’s exactly what we’re focused on. How are we eliminating race, income, and background as predictors of whether or not a student can and should be successful within an environment?

Dr. Emma Zone:

Yeah, I love that. I think this is a nice way to end. What is your hope for the future of education when it comes to equity? I know there’s a lot of one things or maybe key ideas, but if there is one thing we can all do today to make education more equitable for all learners, what’s the takeaway?

Daysha Jackson-Sanchez:

So the biggest thing for me is, and you said it first, Emma, it’s about caring. It’s not about what we get caught up in sometimes when it comes to jargon and DEI and all the acronyms and things of that nature, is really genuinely caring about students and their ability to be successful. So if you take nothing away from this, it’s a matter of really understanding that not all of our students that come to us are coming to us with the same preparedness or experiences. And it’s our job to create opportunities to help them overcome the barriers that they face and eventually accomplish the goals that they’ve come to us set out to accomplish. And we do that from a place of caring and support. And as long as we can stay grounded in why we’re here, we’re all educators. Without students, we would not be educators. And so we can all stay grounded in the fact that we are here to support our students in ways that help them be successful. That’s my biggest takeaway.

Dr. Emma Zone:

That’s a great takeaway. And I agree. I think that’s something that all of us are here for. We’re all on board for that.

Thank you so much for being here. This has been such a great conversation and a really good learning lesson on not only the work you’re doing, but the importance in the broader context as well. And thanks for sharing a little bit of your background with us and why this work matters. For more information on equitable and inclusive education, please make a point to read Daysha’s blogs. And she’s out there with lots of other wonderful insights that you can follow along. I recommend one that’s called Enhancing Inclusivity Through Pedagogical Partnerships: Valuing Students’ Diverse Experiences, which you can find at lumenlearning.com. And also check out her opinion piece on diverseeducation.com entitled The Key to Generating More Equitable Results in Higher Education? Uniting the Faculty and Edtech Communities. And we’ll include the links to these pieces in the show notes so it’s easy for you all to access.

So thanks to our dedicated listeners and curious educators everywhere. Remember to follow us on social media. You can find us on LinkedIn or Facebook at D2L, and of course, check out our YouTube channel @Desire2LearnInc. If you liked what you heard today, please subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you could rate, review and share our podcast, it will help others find us. Bye for now.

Dr. Cristi Ford:

You’ve been listening to Teach & Learn, a podcast for curious educators, brought to you by D2L, a global learning innovation company helping organizations reshape the future of education and work.

Dr. Emma Zone:

To learn more about our K-20 and corporate solutions, visit D2L.com. Visit the Teaching and Learning Studio for more material for educators, by educators, including master classes, articles, and interviews at D2L.com/teachingandlearningstudio.

Dr. Cristi Ford:

And remember to hit that subscribe button and please take a moment to rate, review and share the podcast. Thanks for joining us, and until next time, school’s out.

Resources Discussed in the Episode

• Enhancing Inclusivity Through Pedagogical Partnerships: Valuing Students’ Diverse Experiences
• The Key to Generating More Equitable Results in Higher Education? Uniting the Faculty and EdTech Communities